Longtime Observer

59 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said:

MA ---> FL

@Adam Kurkjian

So, is CAI a nationally relevant team in 2022?

40 minutes ago, Columbiafan said:

But Venice and Lakeland aren't the same suburban as say a Buchholz, Columbia or Baker County

 

That's the biggest issue with this system as this change was to help schools like the bottom 3 play on a more level playing field instead of being in brackets with metro teams that are recruiting from 1M+ people 

 

Sarasota and Polk counties (Venice and Lakeland respectively) are not too far behind some these metros in terms of talent pool but the change wasn't to help them but they indirectly got a much easier path to states but to be fair Lakeland and Venice I believe are both in 4S along with Osceola so 4S will have 3 top 10 FL teams with those 3

I agree what you're saying, with the exception of Buchholz. A Gainesville/Alachua county all-star team would be pretty loaded.  

12 hours ago, Columbiafan said:

The idea of metro suburban is also being done to address the state championship blowouts because by definition if you put programs pulling from a similar talent pool size wise then you will have teams of similar ability on the field and better state championship games will also lead to better attendance for these games and that makes the product better 

 

Obviously though there's a long ways to go to correct the many problems surrounding Florida High School athletics

The answer, as Sammy suggested, is an "Open" division. Schools like Baker County and Merrit Island could always opt out of the Open division, while schools like Venice and Lakeland could opt in.

12 hours ago, Sammy Swordsman said:

Having the states top teams in different playoff divisions is counter / anti competition.  
 

STA, Lakeland, Central, Venice, Cocoa, Madonna, Columbia, et Al. Should all be in the same playoffs.   There is no good reason for them not to be since they would all be competitive with each other 

Agreed. Schools like Lakeland and Venice, despite being "suburban", both recruit (the players do the recruiting) very effectively. Just last year, Venice blew out Miami Columbus and Apopka (close to Orlando). And Lakeland has the history they have, and perhaps the most loaded team ever on the way. And I'm quite sure they'd both prefer to play with those other teams. But the FHSAA wants as many title games as possible, and most teams from outside of urban areas aren't like Venice/Lakeland with the recruiting, so they like the split.

12 hours ago, Sammy Swordsman said:

Any chance that Fla moves to having an "open" playoff division so these top teams would be able to duke it out on the field instead of twitter?

Hopefully, but it doesn't seem likely anytime soon. I'm hoping for a final bowl game of sorts. Like the Gieco game, but with "metro" and "suburban" champs volunteering to play.

13 hours ago, GardenStateBaller said:

That's true? I always thought that was urban folklore. 

It's happened many times, though Traz isn't the only place it's happened by any means.

21 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said:

Very excited to see them live vs Jones. 

Jones is terribly overrated...because they have the OOS game. They lost to both Edgewater (who was mopped by Lake Gibson) and Pine Forest. What they have is a semi-famous, ambitious head coach who wants to drum up attention for the team. Media covering HS football has almost always fell for the marketing tricks of coaches. And they always tend to underrate the few old school coaches that take the opposite, "Lou Holtz" approach to talking about their teams.

2 hours ago, GardenStateBaller said:

STA won't schedule MC at Traz either. 

Too many stories of shots being fired during games. It's a good bet the fans/boosters of many schools are asking not to play there. It's a shame. 

4 hours ago, Columbiafan said:

Actually Miami Central didn't duck Lakeland

 

Lakeland would only play Central if they came to Bryant Stadium and wouldn't go to Traz Powell

 

Lakeland also made no attempt to schedule Miami Central until AFTER they raided all of Polk County all stars for a roster to rival IMG in talent 

So, it sounds like, at best, Central would only play Lakeland if it was at Traz Powell? 😂

Lakeland made the attempt after they did what Central does every year in Dade county. 

I think it's fair to say both teams are guilty of the same thing. (Which, of course, means fans of one team only consider how the other team is bad/weak/scared etc.)

4 hours ago, MC ROCKETS said:

Sammy...Lakeland is not a group 2 team. Not sure if this was a crapshoot or you actually did your research? Coming from a Florida guy, Chaminade and AHP are both better. They did pick up some transfers from their surrounding area, and usually have a decent regular season then hits the early exit button in the playoffs. Not sold on them.

It depends on what criteria you use to determine the rankings. Is it based on the number of scheduled games against assumed nationally elite teams? If so, they're not top 100. Is it based on how a team does with average versions of its teams under the current head coach- whereby Mater Dei losing thirty-two (32) games between 2008 and 2015 (no fewer than 3 in any of those seasons) might suggest the Monarchs "usually" lose several games a season and don't win a title- then they also aren't top 100.  Is it based on the talent and experience on the roster, as determined by colleges recruiting and games started? If so, they are top 10 in the country. Is it based on historical accomplishments with loaded teams? If so, they are top 10 in the country.

On paper (which is all we have for any team right now), this is by far the most loaded Lakeland roster ever. Given they've had multiple teams blow out STA in state title games, they have teams who've traveled to the Bay area and beat DLS in a year when the Spartans won the CA Open bowl title, etc, if this team really is way better than those teams...only a hopeless homer would argue they aren't top 10 nationally.

* It appears as if Miami Central ducked Lakeland this year. And their head coach was "all up in his feelings making several Twitter posts trying to justify it. So, it looks like there's some "tension" between the Rockets and Dreadnaughts. 😁

1 hour ago, Sammy Swordsman said:

The first Servite vs SJB game last year was 100% meaningless.  MD already had the league champ locked up.  Vanilla vanilla.  Two weeks later in the playoffs Servite rolled 40-21  

As far as major wins for non Top 2 CA teams, SJB wasn't Top 2 last year and they beat 3 or so State Champs - Miami Central, Oscar Smith, East St. Louis.   JSerra beat Ga defending State Champ Milton a couple years back.   DLS beat Bishop Gorman and Liberty, Cen10 beat Chander, Jokes beat East side Catholic Wa.  Amat beat Aledo.  etc etc etc, MV beat DBP, and Moeller in the Herstreit Classic.   DLS beat Elder, and SJC,... etc etc etc

 

MD and SJB are obviously the top 2 I refer to. In one (1) season, Servite managed to win one of two games against SJB.  That didn't mean Servite is now top 2 in CA.

1 hour ago, Columbiafan said:

Actually yes they have lost a player or two this off-season to STA and their coach Patrick Surtain also left 

 

Plus AHP has not been dominant the last few years, they usually get by because of being well coached but coming off a Coaching change and having some down years as of late it's way too early to have them top 25 nationally and them being there is Ranking off their name only

 

One stud receiver isn't going to make them top 25 in the nation, I would give them top 100 nationally but not top 25

Mark Fletcher, OSU commit, and a couple of 4* DBs are more than just Innis. 

1 hour ago, Sammy Swordsman said:

SJB beat 3 or so state champs last year.  Servite beat SJB by 3 TD’s 

Servite split the series. And that's one (1) win for a non-top 2 team of note. You start trying to compile a list of major wins for non-top 2 CA teams (DLS of yesteryear excluded) and it's a short, underwhelming list.

5 hours ago, GardenStateBaller said:

@Longtime Observer

He was too short to be a viable corner, too small to be a safety, and too raw to be a WR. Ultimately, to keep a guy on scholarship, he's got to be a viable option with a position group on O or D. Kick returner was his specialty, but they have plenty of guys who can do that.

2 hours ago, GardenStateBaller said:

16/25

Let's see who the nine are that aren't affiliated, and then evaluate their rosters. My hunch is they are teams that are simply too obviously good to leave out.

3 hours ago, Sammy Swordsman said:

The ratio of 3 Calif teams and 2 NJ teams needs to be addressed.

The last 2 times both of the ranked NJ played a Calif teams, they were running clocked.

There are probably 14-20 Calif teams that are better than the #2 NJ team and 5-8 Calif teams that are better than NJ #1

And yet this conclusion is based entirely on the strength of the top two teams in CA. All of the other teams that lose to those two end up bumped up in the rankings as a result. When you actually look to see who the other teams outside of the top two BEAT, you're left wanting.

4 hours ago, Columbiafan said:

AHP is too high and will be in every major poll because of one player

 

I will gladly address this when I release my poll, remember I was pointing out the same thing about Miami Northwestern last year and ended up being right while most thought me not having MNW in the top 10 for FL was idiotic 

 

Funny how things tend to work out including being the only ranking service to rank all 8 state champs in the preseason

Has AHP lost some players that I'm not aware of? Last I checked they had a lot of big time players, including a couple of Ohio State commits.

3 hours ago, GardenStateBaller said:

Not true at all. Their SOS is horrific each and every year regardless. Playing and beating teams like Apopka and Bloomingdale will never ever equate to substantial national rankings. Beggars can't be choosers. 

Their schedule should be better this year, granted. Point is, if they had a big name that is a PGL client, they'd be top 10. And the reason is because they have a top 10 roster, with above average-compared to the top 25- coaching/coordinators. They have 15 kids on defense alone with D1 offers, including the consensus best defensive player in the country. And it's a good bet the kids from their neck of the woods are more likely to be underrated than the kids playing for a private power in the largest media market in the country where HS football is a thing. 

54 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said:

Fun fact: If Lakeland merely scheduled a game against any "PGL client" they'd immediately be in the top 10. That they're #25 in a rankings list done by someone who works tirelessly to discredit them due to their not being a "PGL client" is informative. 

if you can't appreciate this. Great job by Maxpreps in showcasing this rivalry. It appears as if this kind of rivalry is dead, at least until the FHSAA fixes the mess they created with the "Metro" and "Suburban" classifications.

Legendary game with legendary programs.