Are high school championships out of reach without recruiting?

[All Dei]

On 6/6/2022 at 8:17 PM, THEOC89 said:

Totally Agree with You!!!….. While I enjoy the OOS games, I could care less about “National Championships” for HSFB….. These are subjective awards handed out by people who likely don’t even watch the Games….🤣

State Championships are what HSFB is about as they are earned on the field…... Until there is a National playoff (Which There Will Never Be), Any kind of HSFB “Natty” is nothing more then Mythical….

I mean is anyone on this Board Positive that MD would have Beat SFA last year?…. I’m not…. 🍻

Um, STA beat SFA.  Yes, MD would have handled either of those teams by 10+.

[All Dei]

8 hours ago, THEOC89 said:

SFA beat IMG last year which is better then any win MD has had since MD beat SFA back in 2019….

 

MD's 14-point victory over the team that would beat them in the final that same year was more impressive than their 16-point victory over SFA.  And you have no proof MD is dodging SFA.  Please.  And why would they? Bosco?  Who knows?  Maybe, especially since they ceded the SFA game to MD on their own home turf.

[GardenStateBaller]

28 minutes ago, All Dei said:

MD's 14-point victory over the team that would beat them in the final that same year was more impressive than their 16-point victory over SFA.  And you have no proof MD is dodging SFA.  Please.  And why would they? Bosco?  Who knows?  Maybe, especially since they ceded the SFA game to MD on their own home turf.

MD and SJB both declined SFAs advances in 2022. Trying again in 2023. 

[Adam Kurkjian]

57 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said:

MD and SJB both declined SFAs advances in 2022. Trying again in 2023. 

That's disappointing. SFA is one of the few programs in the country that can reasonably compete with those two right now. Those teams should be playing every year.

[GardenStateBaller]

7 minutes ago, Adam Kurkjian said:

That's disappointing. SFA is one of the few programs in the country that can reasonably compete with those two right now. Those teams should be playing every year.

Fingers crossed for 2023. 

[All Dei]

On 6/8/2022 at 7:20 PM, GardenStateBaller said:

MD and SJB both declined SFAs advances in 2022. Trying again in 2023. 

Declining does not necessarily mean unwillingness to play.  

[GardenStateBaller]

On 6/9/2022 at 7:38 PM, All Dei said:

Declining does not necessarily mean unwillingness to play.  

Agree. Hence, why I added that 2023 is still an opportunity. 

[Bones]

In IL it's probable that unrecruited publics win state championships especially in the larger classes. Although Loyola is the most consistent large school program in the state and the 8A favorite most years for over a decade, they rarely come home with the 1st place hardware. 

 

In the 20 years since expansion to 8 classes publics won 8A 17 out of 20 years. In 7A publics won 16 of 20. In 6A publics won 11 of 20. Then when you get to 5A privates won 17 of 20, I included Chicago Phillips in with the privates because they operated the same way.

[GardenStateBaller]

20 minutes ago, Bones said:

In IL it's probable that unrecruited publics win state championships especially in the larger classes. Although Loyola is the most consistent large school program in the state and the 8A favorite most years for over a decade, they rarely come home with the 1st place hardware. 

 

In the 20 years since expansion to 8 classes publics won 8A 17 out of 20 years. In 7A publics won 16 of 20. In 6A publics won 11 of 20. Then when you get to 5A privates won 17 of 20, I included Chicago Phillips in with the privates because they operated the same way.

Good analysis. Which IL pubs should I be pursuing for high profile oos opptys? 

[Columbiafan]

26 minutes ago, Bones said:

In IL it's probable that unrecruited publics win state championships especially in the larger classes. Although Loyola is the most consistent large school program in the state and the 8A favorite most years for over a decade, they rarely come home with the 1st place hardware. 

 

In the 20 years since expansion to 8 classes publics won 8A 17 out of 20 years. In 7A publics won 16 of 20. In 6A publics won 11 of 20. Then when you get to 5A privates won 17 of 20, I included Chicago Phillips in with the privates because they operated the same way.

What is the transfer rules in Illinois?

 

I know in Florida the current rules allow publics to get transfers as easy if not actually easier than privates but I know that's not the norm across the country 

[Columbiafan]

On 6/3/2022 at 7:22 PM, GardenStateBaller said:

There's a large talent gap berween MC and the elite power privates as evidenced by the Rockets recent losses to SFA and SJB. 

Didn't Miami Central smash STA the last time they played?

[Columbiafan]

Also that same SFA team that blew out Miami Central did the same thing to IMG Academy

 

Is IMG Academy trending down because SFA has their number and has exposed that IMG can't beat a team that matches them in talent and has better coaching on top of playing harder than them?

[Testadura]

In NJ, BC, Joes, DePaul, SPP, and PC recruit with impunity.  

Bosco plays it fair and square and should annihilate those teams.  

[MC ROCKETS]

On 6/3/2022 at 2:37 PM, SSG Blue said:

Public schools that have corporate sponsors have unlimited financial resources.  They don’t need to recruit to win a National Championship just great coaching and playing #1 hardest schedules in America.  We have had two in my area do it 2007 Miami Northwestern’s Bulls & 2013 Booker T Washington Tornadoes both sponsored by Nike Corporation.  We currently have a third that may win National Championship this season 2022-23 Miami Central Rockets.  

As much as I would love for MC to go undefeated, their schedule in the regular season isn't strong enough. 8-9 games. And only national profile game is IMG. They would need to run the table and get LOTS of help. i.e. John Curtis 2012. 

[MC ROCKETS]

On 6/3/2022 at 2:37 PM, SSG Blue said:

Public schools that have corporate sponsors have unlimited financial resources.  They don’t need to recruit to win a National Championship just great coaching and playing #1 hardest schedules in America.  We have had two in my area do it 2007 Miami Northwestern’s Bulls & 2013 Booker T Washington Tornadoes both sponsored by Nike Corporation.  We currently have a third that may win National Championship this season 2022-23 Miami Central Rockets.  

As much as I would love for MC to go undefeated, their schedule in the regular season isn't strong enough. 8-9 games. And only national profile game is IMG. They would need to run the table and get LOTS of help. i.e. John Curtis 2012. 

[MC ROCKETS]

On 6/3/2022 at 7:22 PM, GardenStateBaller said:

There's a large talent gap berween MC and the elite power privates as evidenced by the Rockets recent losses to SFA and SJB. 

Coaching. 

[Columbiafan]

2 minutes ago, MC ROCKETS said:

As much as I would love for MC to go undefeated, their schedule in the regular season isn't strong enough. 8-9 games. And only national profile game is IMG. They would need to run the table and get LOTS of help. i.e. John Curtis 2012. 

Beating IMG would likely thrust Miami Central into the conversation but with the 2M playoffs you all will get ranked competition deep into the postseason

 

I think Chaminade or Miami Central would beat IMG this year 

[MC ROCKETS]

On 2/19/2022 at 11:12 PM, GardenStateBaller said:

IMO they'd never leapfrog undefeated privates like MD, SFA, SFA, IMG, etc., who's SOS were much stronger. 

So if MC beats IMG where do you place them?

[Bones]

40 minutes ago, GardenStateBaller said:

Good analysis. Which IL pubs should I be pursuing for high profile oos opptys? 

It's hard to say really due to the fluctuation of programs year to year. Schools literally can come from nowhere and be the #1 team. Lockport last year for example was the 8A champ at 13-1 with their loss being to Lincoln Way East. In the previous full season (2019) they were 4-5 and in 2018 they were 0-9 [2020 had a 6 game COVID spring season that I don't count]. The change in results can be attributed to a coaching change, but I don't expect championship level Lockport yearly nor do I expect 4-5. 

The most consistent large public is either Lincoln Way East or Maine South. Neither school is going to impress national audiences due to a focus on offer sheets of players. Obviously there's East St. Louis who appeals to national types due to their offers and style of play. Batavia has been one of the more successful publics on the 6A/7A level, they have an interesting week 2 match up with LWE this year. Glenbard West is a power when they drop to 7A but not so much in 8A although poor draws have something to do with that. In 6A Prairie Ridge and Cary-Grove are consistent winners, note C-G was able to defeat ESL last year in the championship (i forgot PR and C-G are in a closed conference together and have no non conference openings). If you're looking for prospects my school, Bolingbrook, is probably the Cedar Hill of IL for better or worse.

 

Private schools to watch for other than Loyola are Mt. Carmel. They'll probably be Chicagoland preseason #1, they beat ESL in '17 and '18 in the playoffs. Nazareth Academy has been consistently good, but I think they're losing players recently and not getting ones they would normally get. Brother Rice, St. Rita, Joliet Catholic, and Marist are consistent along with Sacred Heart Griffin out of Springfield.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Bones

[Testadura]

2 minutes ago, MC ROCKETS said:

So if MC beats IMG where do you place them?

At the very top. 

[Bones]

28 minutes ago, Columbiafan said:

What is the transfer rules in Illinois?

 

I know in Florida the current rules allow publics to get transfers as easy if not actually easier than privates but I know that's not the norm across the country 

Kids can transfer if they move or change of guardianship, or from private schools with proof of financial hardship. There are some transfers but I don't think its anything like we hear about elsewhere.

[MC ROCKETS]

Just now, Columbiafan said:

Beating IMG would likely thrust Miami Central into the conversation but with the 2M playoffs you all will get ranked competition deep into the postseason

 

I think Chaminade or Miami Central would beat IMG this year 

Yes, they would be in the conversation. They had a stronger schedule last year and I feel even with going undefeated they would have only been a top 3-5 team. Too much west coast bias in these polls. Look at Westlake in Texas, have won 3 straight titles, on a 30+ game win streak in the highest class in the state and can't sniff a piece of the MNC...crazy!!!

[MC ROCKETS]

2 minutes ago, Testadura said:

At the very top. 

That sounds good to hear in July, but we know that won't happen in August. 

[Columbiafan]

3 minutes ago, MC ROCKETS said:

Yes, they would be in the conversation. They had a stronger schedule last year and I feel even with going undefeated they would have only been a top 3-5 team. Too much west coast bias in these polls. Look at Westlake in Texas, have won 3 straight titles, on a 30+ game win streak in the highest class in the state and can't sniff a piece of the MNC...crazy!!!

I thought Westlake was second largest since it's been duncanville and North shore in the highest class lately?

[MC ROCKETS]

3 minutes ago, Columbiafan said:

I thought Westlake was second largest since it's been duncanville and North shore in the highest class lately?

• 2021 6A Division II State Champions
• 2020 6A Division I State Champions
• 2019 6A Division II State Champions

Should have been a MN champion. Even if it was a split. Pollsters didn't really want to crown North Shore a few years ago, but they knew it was the right thing to do.